There’s a lot of things you can call John McAfee, probably with good cause. One thing you can’t call him, though, is boring. Listen in on episode 98 of the HodlCast to get an interesting and somewhat unhinged earful from the controversial security magnate turned politician.

While the elevator pitch of this episode would be “McAfee discusses his new decentralized exchange,” this installment of HodlCast covers everything from lawless utopia, to income tax, to lazy millennials as John remotes in via sat-phone and speaks his mind on a range of topics.

After some banter about the potential for real-time valuations of candidates on the campaign trail and inter-generational tensions, McAfee gets down to brass tacks about things like the CIA and panoptic surveillance.

From there, Sasha and John discuss his friendship with Alex Jones, the incentive structure of the intelligence community, his political ambitions, and a range of other topics. You’ll have to listen to the episode in full to get a grasp for what he’s trying to say with all the digressions and qualifications, but needless to say, it’s an auditory roller coaster.

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